(freely translated in english from dutch)
Beyond Nietzsche
by Fred Backus
December 14, 1994 - appeared in No. 50
Last year, E. M. Cioran published Bitter syllogisms, translated by Huug Caleis, from De Arbeiderspers. At the same publishing house, Drawn & Quartered will appear next spring, in the translation of Rokus Hofstede. The French magazine 'Magazine Litteraire', from December, contains a more than twenty page 'file' about Cioran. E. M. Cioran, the most pessimistic thinker of this century, is spending his last days in a Paris nursing home. Before he got there, he unloads once more. About Muslims, Jews and Christians. And about the uselessness of life. The last interview.
At the Shadow side from a garden of a nursing home in the center of Paris, a small, dead-tired old man is waiting under a cap - staring into nothingness. All power seems to have withdrawn from his body; speaking words is almost impossible, it costs too much air. Only his eyes react to his visitor, alternating with delighted wonder and ironic self-pity. Would he be able to speak at full strength - even if only for a few seconds - he would exclaim with a mixture of aggression, pride and self-mockery: "This is the irony!" Now, exhausted, trapped in the ruthless ethics of medical aid, surrounded by loving grief, comes out in a whisper: 'Vous me devez supprimer ...', as an unanswerable plea to his companion Simone: 'Take me away.'
Four Years ago, we had spoken to each other the last time, almost a whole day. Many of his friends, acquaintances, kindred spirits have recently dead. Michaux, Beckett ... A few years before he made a walk with them, in the Jardin de Luxembourg. He was then almost eighty years old, an unthinkable survivor, who on the age of twenty-two, described himself as "the most destructive creature in all history; an apocalyptic monster full of flames and darkness, animated by power and despair '. Anyone who engages in his work is confronted with that destructiveness and despair in a way that has thrilled many readers to throw it into the stove: this is all true, but I do not want to know! What is he? The biggest, most aggressive pessimist in history? A hysterical fanatic without conviction? A mystic? They do not know. This hybrid spirit, this brilliant stylist, who jumps from one extremity to the other in his radical skepticism, is primarily a prophet of the hopeless, a 'voyeur of nothingness' (Edward Said), a misanthrope transformed into energetic fire. bears witness to a bewildering scholarship that shatters everything, like a murderous sniper, for whom no thought is safe.
His voice had already lost strength, and now and then it sounded tired. Sometimes his memory left him for a moment. "How is your hotel?" He asked. I said, "It is between shop windows full of Freud and Heidegger." 'Unbelievably that interest in Heidegger', he reacts immediately. "You know, Heidegger could never have been a Frenchman. Why? Because of the language. Rivarol has pointed out that the probite, the integrity of language, is typical of the French style feeling. It is a kind of built-in security that does not know German. Heidegger's genius was especially his language-creating power. His profundity was a premeditation. His thinking was a preconceived In-Tiefe-Machen, and that leads to the forcing of the language, to the avoidance of common expressions, at any price. '
You do not believe in Heidegger?
'No absolutely not. Heidegger managed to turn himself out everywhere and obscure any impasse by using the most unusual, often irritating phrases and Worterfinderei. Such a thing is inconceivable in French. Vaugelas, one of the most important linguists of the seventeenth century, would not even have allowed the king to make new words. One should not think about how he would have gone against the popularity of Heidegger in France. A foreign philosopher who would create innumerable new words ... It is really absurd. '
Do you still write?
'No not anymore. Many people do not want to believe that, but ... I could have died long ago, and there's no point in thinking about the books that people could have written. Most writers write too much, they often have to correct themselves later. That's no use. "
Do you still write for yourself?
'Yes and no ... Occasionally, but without conviction. I have changed inwardly, and writing is a feeling. I am no longer me. My work is the work of negation. I have become tired of criticizing life, to insult the rest of the universe. You never know, of course, but I do not believe that I will return to literature.
I have never written much. This has not only to do with my views on authorship, but also with the problem of language. I was 37 when I started to write French. That is actually much too late. In Romania, French was fairly common, but that is not enough for a writer. I have made a terrible battle with French. It was an adventure, a conflict between me and the language. I have said, "I will overpower that language." Perhaps that gave my life a meaning ... I thought I would write one or two books, it turned out to be ten. "
Did you expect people to characterize you as the best French stylist?
'No not at all. I also do not believe that it is true. But you know, I've rewritten everything that I have writed at least three times, and the difference between the first, second and third versions was always very big. The first time you are ... satisfied. Only later on will the shortcomings become visible. I have always asked Simone to read my texts, to hear how they sound. This was very important in the beginning. You hear whether something is good or not. The style issue is very problematic. It is the problem of Klarheit. I read a lot of German in my youth, but I wanted my style to have nothing to do with German, nothing heavy, nothing grundlichs. "
I read in Liberation that you were very enthusiastic about the revolutions in Romania.
'It was horrible. I let myself be swept away by the opinions of people that I trusted and who assured me of the good intentions of Iliescu and associates. It is irony at it's summit. All my life I refused to allow an interview to a French newspaper. I never wanted to have anything to do with it. After the fall of Ceausescu, a journalist called me and had me tempted into a terrible mistake: I sided with the revolution. Idiotic!'
Perhaps because it was your original homeland?
'No. Romania has no sense for me anymore. I have been away for more than half a century. Moreover, my childhood in Romania was a tragedy without end. My mother always cried because of me. If I had not left Romania, I would have committed suicide. Paris saved me. I promised to write a thesis here. I did not do it, but I never felt guilty. Romanians generally believe in nothing, that is their only merit, the only positive thing about them. To write a thesis, you must attach faith to a philosophical jargon. That is too much honor for life. Life does not deserve a philosophical depth.
Translated into normal language, a philosophical text is emptied very quickly. '
You have always distrusted East Europe, especially Russia. Is this fragmented empire still a danger?
'I believe that it was the ambassador of the Netherlands who asked Ivan the Terrible through an interpreter why he persecuted so many people and had them murdered. Iwan replied: "Tell this idiot that anyone who does not kill the Russian, will be killed by him." That is the tradition of Russia, and it still exists. "
You do not believe that democratization continues in Russia?
"No, maybe for a moment, with the help of foreign capital. The Russians have no talent for democracy, for freedom. That freedom must have a limit, and can therefore only fail. The problem is where that limit lies. But it will not go well, it will end again in dictatorship. '
In Russia, as you once said, the orthodox church has great significance again.
'Yes, that can have consequences for the Russian delusion of grandeur. In that respect, we may speak of happiness that they also have to deal with the problem of the Muslims. The Russians are a very religious people. It was very stupid to try to destroy that. Religion is positive. Someone who can believe in God is not yet finished, not yet exhausted. I also believe that Gorbachev understood that too little. He was, how shall I say, very cynical, but especially irreligious. For me, that explains his unpopularity. '
In your books, in your worldview, the American continent plays no role, as if it were a negligible superpower.
'America does not have the problem of Europe. The country has nothing big. France and England were impressive in the past. America does not, it has nothing mysterious. It is a country without major defeats. Maybe they will, but I am not fascinated by it, not like Russia. "
They see themselves as the last world power: without the Americans, no Gulf War.
"That was an abnormal war, in every respect. Actually, it was not a war but a comedy. Only America could do so stupidly and therefore compromise itself, without any historical awareness. In the eyes of Arabs, Americans are only stupid rich people. And they're right. The only intelligent people in America are Jews, they control public opinion, but also force them into their politics. If America had not won that war in one blow, it would have become catastrophic. I fear that in an event of great losses, the American people would become very anti-Semitic, and wondered: why did we have to do this for Israel? Why not allow Saddam to get rid of for a million dollar by some adventurer? Nobody had blamed America. Now they have achieved a military victory, but psychologically America has lost. "
What do you mean?
"The Arab problem still exists, it is one of the biggest problems of the future. Especially for Europe. The Arabs are already conquering France. They hate the French. They multiply incredibly, that is historically unavoidable. Many of them are already saying: this country is ours. '
With these kinds of statements you risk being typed as a right-wing extremist, as a sympathizer of Le Pen.
"About fifteen years ago I was friends with the sister of the foreign minister. Shocked, I told her about my experiences with all those foreigners in the Paris area. "You are a racist!" She said, and broke contact. Until a few years, she also saw it. Everyone sees it now, this grotesque, but it is too late now.
A year or so ago, there might was something to do about, with strict measures. No, that has nothing to do with racism, it is all much more complicated. It is all part of the suicide of Europe, out of guilt.
Spenglers 'Untergang des Abendlandes' is probably a very prophetic book. At that time it was despised, nobody wanted to believe it. The world will become intolerable, much faster than people think, I am absolutely convinced of that. '
The Arabs will also remain a threat to Israel?
'Doubtless.'
In 'La tentation d'exister' from 1956 you do not hint at all believing in the future of Israel. You only call Israel a 'provisional' fatherland.
'Yes, the fate of the Jews is exceptional, and even uncompromising with the help of compromises. The Jews are the only historical people that have not fallen prey to decadence. One of the reasons is the absence of a fatherland. A homeland is a kind of sleeping aid. The Jews have always been watchful wherever they were. That still applies. Their walk around the world has something unearthly. They attach to this world, but they do not belong in some way. It is incredible how many civilizations they have traversed, how much they have left their mark on it. And yet they do not belong there. Their desire for the utopian is a memory projected in the future. I believe that it is not possible to turn history back two thousand years. I believe it is their destiny to keep running their heads against the wailing wall - while they long for paradise. "
You say that they are the first people to 'colonize heaven', but that their religion fills them with pride and with shame at the same time.
"By placing their God in heaven they have erased all other gods, all other myths. But I believe that the Jews are tired of their own God. "
You go very far in your predictions. You foresee that they will ever confess to Christianity.
"You know, that's the only prophecy that I'm really proud of. Christ was a Jew. They have betrayed him. If everyone has left Christianity, the Jews will confess, they will take Christ back to them, and they will be hated again, and persecuted, for that reason. I really believe that it will go like this. "
From childhood on you attacked Christianity. In what way does your criticism differ from Nietzsche's?
'Nietzsche's criticism was only world-historical, almost civil. I have entered into a personal confrontation with Christianity. I have never been a true Christian, although my father was a priest, but I still wanted to free myself from Christianity.As long as my powers allowed it, I went further into it. Four times I experienced an ecstasy similar to that of the great mystics. I have tried to understand the saints from the inside. That is why you can say that I have gone further than Nietzsche. My negation is on a different level than his own. His philosophy is something like an erotic letter from a weak brother. He wanted to have influence. Not me, absolutely not. I have only described what I experienced. I do not have any pretensions. "
You have "tried" Buddhism.
'Buddhism has always fascinated me, but it's nothing for me. I am too tense, too nervous. Moreover, I can not deny myself everything. That is a delusion. In the past, when I came home drunk, I read sermons from the Buddha all night, but I can not control myself as he wishes. I can not live without sex, without sensual life. I once went to a monastery ... three days, I could not stand it any longer.
I am not in control of my nature. I am a Buddhist who constantly makes concessions. '
Nowadays even a Buddhist with television, I see ... Do you follow the world news now through the TV?
"Sometimes I look, but usually not. I got it as a gift from a friend. I would not buy a television by myself. You have to know something, but I believe that it is not spiritually good to see the latest news. It is humiliating, depressing, in the worst sense of the word. For me it hardly makes sense, I am no longer among the people. As long as you do, you have to know a little bit about what is going on.
But that need for the latest news ... It is just like the Apostrophe program. The whole of France spoke about it. The latest literary news was the talk of the day. This is not good for a people with a literary tradition. Pivot, the presenter of the program, has invited me repeatedly, but I have always refused.
I do not want to say in a stupid way whether television is good or not. But it has something un-nice, I do not like it. It would be better if one did not want to see everything. But it is inevitable. That depravity! "
Do you believe in any change, any progress?
"Progress was a religion, not anymore. Les progressists ... they do not believe in it anymore. There is another belief, something will change. History will get a different rhythm. Man is an adventure that is impossible to end well. If that is not true, then I am the last idiot. In my eyes, man is a depraved animal. Man was an animal. Not anymore. He is no longer an animal, but no human being either. I do not know what he is, at least not a tragic creature, that would be "too beautiful". A genius? A criminal? A corrupt animal? I do not know. But I do know that he has no future. I'll give it to you on a note if necessary. People will perish. "
You see every turn negative?
"... Everything is corrupt. The multiplication of this animal would have some meaning if it were a rare species. But it just keeps on reproducing, incredible, people, people, everywhere! And life loses its charm. "
One can still fall in love.
"Yes, but you fall in love within a hell - and even that will not be possible for long. This negative animal destroys everything. It is not the culture, or I know what. It is man himself, and of course ... science. It is responsible for people to no longer die. Go to a hospital. It is a catastrophe. Only old people who should not live anymore. One prolongs lives that have no meaning anymore. The result is that young people can no longer find a home. That is the criminal of the doctors. The results of science are extraordinary, but they all have a negative downside - that is history, that is the universal irony. In principle everything seems positive, but if you look deeper ... Distrusting everything is the only way to not ridicule yourself. '
Was that not always the case?
'Of course. But science has aggravated everything. When you read the Bible you see that everything from the beginning was already corrupt, that this impossible adventure was foreseen, that there was no other way out. Paradise was impossible, it was too uninteresting. "
Yet there are people who are still reasonably happy.
"Yes, a single individual. The fate of humanity is indescribable. People feel that. But yes, there are always eccentrics. You simply have people who visit a cemetery and walk away whistling. What else do you want to do in that situation, in which everything is clear? '
You never write about living together with a woman.
"No, that only makes sense if it is absolutely negative, otherwise it will not work.
It is impossible to write: I am so happy with my wife. That is unliterary. "
It is often enough wrong nowadays.
"It does not work anymore. Marriage was inevitable as long as the woman was dependent. It was her salvation. Nowadays the women work in the office, that's a lot for a wedding. For me personally, the rule always applied: everything except to marry! Marriage would have been a disaster for me. To have to earn money, to be busy all day for someone else, for nothing in this world! Even though the passion would be great. I did not think about it. Marriage is a dangerous undertaking. I have seen a lot of ending up in a catastrophe. '
Yet you have been living together for thirty-five years.
"I capitulated. I have to admit to myself that I can not live without a woman. I have been living as a husband for thirty-five years, but without being married. I have always thought: if life is justifiable, then only by freedom. Fortunately Simone thinks so too. '
I was at the tomb of Beckett. How was he in his last months?
"Oh, I did not visit him anymore. He was ill for more than two years in a very bad condition. He was ... how shall I say it? In the last period he was no longer the Beckett I had known. One can say: that really was not a failed life. What I so highly respected in him was his unqualifiedness. Unimaginable. People always had the impression that he had just arrived in the city, although he had lived here for more than half a century. He was really a foreigner. He did not like the English, but he himself behaved like that. He was very warm, absolutely unaffected by Paris, which pleased me very much. He was not a social person, but he could be very nice, had a lot of charm. '
What would he have thought of all that posthumous attention?
"He would have rejected it as grotesque. He was not the man. He was a great writer. Yet I fear that one will say: he was overrated. I have thought about it for a long time, and I can not say exactly why, but one will consider him overestimated, fantastically overrated. I say that with regret, we were very good friends. He used to support me financially, his wife even more. "
Was she nice?
'Absolutely not. She was unbearable! She scorned everyone, had no friends. Everyone was uninteresting, or idiotic. I have always admired Beckett that he was with this woman. It was a very curious relationship. They always behaved as if they did not know each other, never went somewhere together. It is hardly imaginable that two such incompatible people have lived together for so long. Later on they separated from each other, living in two apartments. '
Rue Casimir Delavigne, Rue Monsieur Le Prince, we walk to the Jardin de Luxembourg, the conversation does not stop, goes on and on. Cioran takes me to a path, far right.
"We have renamed this avenue with some friends to Beckettallee, here he always walked, here he was never disturbed." Then we say goodbye, as if nothing is wrong.
Only a few years later we see each other again, in another garden, that of a nursing home. A wordless encounter; hands that grasp, no longer letting go.
Simone reads from a pile of mail. "This letter," she says, "is from a reader who wants to correspond about French with Joseph de Maistre in relation to ... and so on."
Cioran frowns his gaze, leaving everyone in limbo or hearing what has been said. Then, in a whisper, he says, waving: 'Pff, pas urgent', and chuckles, infectiously ... 'Pff, pas urgent!'
Original text.